Planning in Threes, Crunch, Camtasia and Sticking with Stuff with Wendy Kier of Virtual Summits
What We Recommended:
Tools & Apps
- PlayStation 4 – “Oh my God. I don’t have any social life whatsoever! I love PS4. I love solving problems, creating things, solving problems, so PS4 is just brilliant for that. I have a PS4, PlayStation 4, helps me relax. The game I’m playing at the moment is called Elder Scrolls. You fight people, you go into battle, you have tasks, you have challenges. It’s very creative. It’s almost like a constant learning environment.”
- Camtasia – “that is a piece of software which I use for my training courses which allows you to record from your computer, slides or anything else that’s happening online as well, so basically, you can just film what you’re doing on your computer. That tool is brilliant.”
- Crunch – “This is for accounts. You know, historically, I had a bookkeeper, but Crunch is brilliant, because I can just upload all of my accounting, whether it’s receipts, or different projects that I have going. I’ve found Crunch saves me a lot of time, and plus it just enables me to keep an eye on my ingoings and outgoings, so I know exactly where I am in the here and now. I love Crunch as well.”
- Dropbox is a brilliant tool.
- Slim in Six – “One of the things I did after Christmas, and it’s in a box set somewhere in the front room, is I bought a little DVD set called “Slim in Six”, which is an exercise workout. I have to consciously just remind myself to eat healthfully, and do the “Slim in Six” thing, when I remember to do it.”
- Theme Days – “I definitely have fixed days in terms of, I have different online groups, courses that I run, so on Tuesday and Thursday, I always have my group course on a Tuesday and Thursday, and those two days are precious for training.”
- Planning – “I work from a principle of three, so I only plan for three months at a time. My brain can’t seem to cope with anything past three months, so all my projects fit into three months. It’s a three month plan, the projects, and then I have three tasks a day that I work on.
I work backwards. The way I’ve done it for these first three months of 2016, my next live course goes out on the 18th of April, so I know to get enough people into that course, there are certain projects that I need to do to get people into the group programme. I know that’s going out on the 18th, so I need to get more people into lower-priced courses so some of them filter through and go into the group programme. I have run two group programmes, so those are my two other little projects. That’s what I focus in on.
I use Google Documents, and what I do is I have … I think it’s called “The First Three Months” or something. Then, within that folder, I have the three different projects, and then I have … I have the three different projects, but then I have a single sheet that has the key tasks from all of the separate projects on one page. I have the deadlines on that page, and I have some tasks on there that I always need to do. Every day, I use that sheet, and then I have a look to make sure I’m on track. I work on priority”
- Product Planning – “You know when you’re creating products, you want to create a family of products that fit into … Right, let me give an example. People who are going to eventually do virtual summits, want to learn about list building, they’ll need to learn about email marketing, they potentially might need to know how to create a product. Each of those little baby steps, so the digital product and list building, are separate courses, would help people make the decision to do a virtual summit. They’re interconnected with one another.”
- Being forward-thinking – “I find it very hard to go backwards. I find it very hard to go over old projects, but I’m constantly moving forward. I’m one of those people that’s just constantly moving forward, rather than backwards.”
- Sticking with Stuff – “There is this thing, and I know Nicola Cairncross and Judith Morgan, on their podcast, which is called ‘Own It’, were talking about it the other week, about, we invest all this time and money in learning something. Its sometimes better just to stay with what we’ve invested all that time and money in learning, rather than just moving across to something new because it’s a little bit cheaper.”
- Learning to Procrastinate – “I think Nicola and Judith, on their podcast, said that you end up sort of buying lots of stuff or watching lots of stuff or reading lots of stuff, sort of trying to learn all the time, and actually it just sort of distracts you from doing. It can be a bit of a procrastination tactic sometimes as well, can’t it?”
To Contact Wendy
- If you want to find more out about getting clients online, there’s http://www.getclientsonline.co.uk, or if anybody wants to find out about virtual summits, my online training programmes are at www.virtualsummits.co.uk – the next one starts on 18 April 2016.
Jo Dodds: Today I'm interviewing Wendy Kier of Virtual Summits. Hello, Wendy. Great to have you with me.
Wendy Kier: Hi, Jo. It's an absolute pleasure.
Jo Dodds: Lovely. Start by telling us a bit about you, what you do and where you do it.
Wendy Kier: Yeah, I work from the beautiful city in Brighton, and I'm very lucky. I now have a home-based office. I have these most amazing views overlooking the city of Brighton. I can literally see for miles, which is really fantastic.
Jo Dodds: Do you find yourself getting distracted by that lovely view, then? I can see the Channel, and sometimes I can even see France from my office window, and I do find myself staring out of the window on occasion.
Wendy Kier: That's amazing. What I find is that ... It's really funny. It gets a bit bright, so I have to have the blind down quite a bit, because I'm on the third floor, and the sun comes in. The best times for me are early in the morning and late in the evening, and I can just sit there and see what's going on outside. Most of the time, I have to have the blind down, otherwise I can't see anything, because the sun is so bright. The views I get in the morning and the evening, but it's lovely to have that. I used to live in London, and everything is quite intense, and quite claustrophobic, so to have that amount of space, and watch the clouds, and the changing weather is just something I really appreciate.
Jo Dodds: Yeah. What do you do from that office then?
Wendy Kier: I am an online marketer, and I've been doing online marketing for a number of years now. My focus is on virtual summits, so I work with my clients one to one, and with online group programmes as well, to enable entrepreneurs and SMEs to bring together big online events.
Jo Dodds: What does that look like? If I was a client, what would that involve, working with you?
Wendy Kier: Not everyone's familiar with virtual summits, especially in the U.K.. They're pretty big in the States. What a virtual summit is, it is a group of people that come together to talk around a specific subject. It's a bit like going to a conference. Then you go and pick the different speakers that you want to listen to. The difference with a virtual summit is it's held in the virtual arena, so people will subscribe in from your email list, and then they will access the different interviews or talks that are going on within that event. In terms of clients, it would be taking them through ... It's like most of what we do within the coaching world. We work backwards with people, so it's identifying the end result that they want to get, and the type of people that they want to attract and the product they want to sell at the end of the event ... Working backwards, and then naming the virtual summit to fit in line with what it is they're offering. Does that make sense?
Jo Dodds: Yes, yes, it does. The sort of work that you're doing, then, is coaching and quite sort of technical sort of set-up and so on, is that the sort of work that you do?
Wendy Kier: The one-to-one ... It breaks a couple of different ways. The one-to-one is, some people will have a VA and other people within their team, even if it's just an outsource VA. Some people might just want to get focused in on the strategy. That will be, what's the product that they're offering, or the online course that they're offering? What type of speakers do they need? What's the digital set-up so that the buyer's got an easy journey? What's the name of the summit? The one-to-one stuff with the client is figuring all of that out, and making sure the buyer's got a very easy journey on to the next level.
The group programme is where people come in, and I have a very specific system that I use, so I teach people that system within a group setting online, and I do that course twice a year, so people can get the support from one another. It's quiet a nurturing group, so people can run their ideas, they can share speakers, make recommendations. The group is a very different experience.
Jo Dodds: Yeah. How do you structure your days? Do you have certain things that happen on certain days, and certain types of tasks on different days, or is it all whatever happens? I guess it depends on whether you're running your group programme or not, as well.
Wendy Kier: I've tried doing different things on different days. I definitely have fixed days in terms of, I have different online groups, courses that I run, so on Tuesday and Thursday, I always have my group course on a Tuesday and Thursday, and those two days are precious for training.
I've tried doing the thing of, let me do sales on a Monday or Wednesday, but that never seems to happen. It's just not my thing. Then what I do is I ... Those are the most two solid days, are the training days. Then I work from a principle of three, so I only plan for three months at a time. My brain can't seem to cope with anything past three months, so all my projects fit into three months. It's a three month plan, the projects, and then I have three tasks a day that I work on.
Jo Dodds: Talk about how you sort of make that happen. It sounds quite simple, and I shared with you before we started that I focus on three tasks a day as well. I mean, I have lots of other things I need to do, but I make sure if I've got those three things done, then the day's a good one, sort of thing. What I don't do is plan much further ahead than a week. I have big goals in my head, but I don't actually think as specifically as you're doing with three months and three projects and so on. How do you make that happen? I can just sort of imagine that I could never find three. There would always be more, or that I'd find three and then I'd sneak in more and pretend they weren't projects. They'd be called something else like so I could still add them in! How do you make that work for you?
Wendy Kier: Again, I work backwards. The way I've done it for these first three months of 2016, my next life course goes out on the 18th of April, so I know to get enough people into that course, there are certain projects that I need to do to get people into the group programme. I know that's going out on the 18th, so I need to get more people into lower-priced courses so some of them filter through and go into the group programme. I have run two group programmes, so those are my two other little projects. That's what I focus in on. I focus in on, right, summit then, I've got to launch those two digital courses then, so there's a reasonable gap between everything. That's how I do it. The first project has ... I start planning for that one. It goes out, it's live, it's over. Then I start planning for the next one. Some people cross into the new training. After the second one, I stop playing for the summit, and then some people maybe cross into that other training.
That's how I've done it for the first three months of this year. I think it's a challenge, the first time around you're doing that, because you've got a lot to create. The second and the third time you're doing that, it's easier, because everything is already created. You're just tweaking things and changing things, and taking some of your marketing ... So that's how I do it.
Jo Dodds: When do you start planning for the second three months? Presumably, there's some sort of overlap, so that you sort of kick off the second three months on time. Otherwise you're spending another week or two planning it.
Wendy Kier: It's not exactly ... It won't be on time, but what I know at the end of those three months is that I can then go, "Right, okay. What's worked well? What hasn't worked well? What do I want my next three months to look like?" It doesn't have to be 100%, "Right, that's my deadline for the three months." I've just got a rough three months, and then I can make a decision after the next summit course as to what I'm going to do for the next three.
Jo Dodds: How do you manage that from a tool perspective, a to-do list perspective? How do you make sure you know what you're doing on a daily basis? Obviously, you choose your three tasks, but where are you choosing them from?
Wendy Kier: I'm choosing them from ... I use Google Documents, and what I do is I have ... I think it's called "The First Three Months" or something. Then, within that folder, I have the three different projects, and then I have ... I have the three different projects, but then I have a single sheet that has the key tasks from all of the separate projects on one page. I have the deadlines on that page, and I have some tasks on there that I always need to do. Every day, I use that sheet, and then I have a look to make sure I'm on track. I work on priority, and before I did digital marketing, I worked with young people at risk for a few ... Well, for about fifteen years, so I know how to manage ... Risk is the wrong word, but prioritising. I'm really good at prioritising things, so I always do the priorities. The ones that are the most important.
Jo Dodds: That's a real key skill, isn't it? Prioritising is so important. I guess that's where the three tasks piece helps as well, because you have to prioritise to come up with just the three, otherwise you do end up with fifteen, and which are the most important, sort of thing. I like that process.
Wendy Kier: I think one of the most important things though, is that those three main projects have to have a relationship together.
Jo Dodds: Okay.
Wendy Kier: Otherwise ... You know when you're creating products, you want to create a family of products that fit into ... Right, let me give an example. People who are going to eventually do virtual summits, want to learn about list building, they'll need to learn about email marketing, they potentially might need to know how to create a product. Each of those little baby steps, so the digital product and list building, are separate courses, would help people make the decision to do a virtual summit. They're interconnected with one another.
Jo Dodds: That sort of gives that a cohesion as far as what you're working on. I guess they all feed into each other as well, yeah, that makes sense. Every day you're choosing your three tasks. What else do you do in the morning? Have you got a particular routine, and does it vary depending on whether you've got your group calls, or whatever happening as well? What does it look like?
Wendy Kier: I have to confess, I'm a bit of a workaholic. It's actually quite hard to stop me from working. I have to be really mindful to even do things like eat. I know I'm not alone on this, because I know a lot of digital marketers, once they get in front of their PC, that's it. You can't interrupt them, you can't do anything, ask a question or anything. Once they're on it, you're sort of sucked into this vortex of being in your head. Routine for me is up ... I have to remind myself to eat breakfast before 10:00, otherwise it won't get eaten. When I was growing up, I was used to eating once a day, so now I have to consciously make myself eat three times a day. It's very easy when you're doing stuff on the computer to forget to eat.
Jo Dodds: Yeah. I was going to say, I can see that, but, to be honest, when I'm procrastinating, eating is one of the things I like to think about, and I have to force myself not to eat. You may not want to share this, but it does beg the question, why you only had food once a day when you were growing up.
Wendy Kier: The truth is that I was brought up in care. I left very early, so I left at 15 and a half, and I'm dyslexic as well. I didn't understand what money was, so I used to ... I'd get my dole money, and I used to go into the shop, and I used to buy one thing at a time. I didn't have very much money. I learned to cook one meal a day, and that has stayed with me for a very, very long time, and it's been a really hard pattern to break.
Jo Dodds: Interesting, isn't it, how much things like that continue? As you say, sort of, it's like a pattern. Did that help you when you were working with the youngsters that you mentioned you were working with earlier? Thinking about the sorts of challenges they had? I guess there's a bit of a gap in the system if that went on so long with you, because nobody helped you to do anything different?
Wendy Kier: Absolutely. I still work with young people at risk now, so, yeah, absolutely. Once you've got that habit from a very early age, it's very, very, very, very difficult to break. Really, really hard.
Jo Dodds: I was listening to something, reading something about habits this week. In fact, I think it was the podcast that I published this week, actually. An interview with Fay Watts, podcast 13. She was saying about how creating habits are so important, and that once you've created them, they take a lot of discipline to create in the first place, but once they're there, they just happen. You weren't intending to create that habit, but once you had it, as you say, it was very difficult to change it.
You've had your breakfast, hopefully. Where do you fit in your planning of your three tasks, and are there any other sort of routine things you do to sort of kick your day off in the right way?
Wendy Kier: No, that's it. I'm pretty work-focused. I'm very task-orientated. I get up, I come straight to the computer, start working, see what priorities I've got. Then try to remind myself to have breakfast, then that's it. I'm off.
Jo Dodds: It's interesting when you talk about your prioritising. I get the feeling that you're probably quite able to focus. Some of the conversations that I have with people quite often do revolve around that whole issue of focus, and I think a lot of the things you've said already during the interview sort of imply that focus probably isn't so much of an issue for you?
Wendy Kier: I'm really lucky Jo. I'm forward-thinking. I find it very hard to go backwards. I find it very hard to go over old projects, but I'm constantly moving forward. I'm one of those people that's just constantly moving forward, rather than backwards.
Jo Dodds: Yeah, that sounds really useful, particularly when you're working on your own, and there's so many things that come flying at you, so much a potential overwhelm. It sounds like you have a structure without having created one. You just naturally do that.
Wendy Kier: Yeah.
Jo Dodds: Yeah.
Wendy Kier: I'm very luck like that, yeah.
Jo Dodds: What about the end of the day? You talk about being a bit of a workaholic, so I guess shutting the door at 5:00 and leaving your office bit doesn't happen just like it doesn't happen in my house. I do go out during the day, and do other things. I do sort of tend to swap and change things around. It sounds like you're working pretty solidly. What do you do at the end of the day? How do you sort of close off the work and make sure that you're ready to sleep in the end?
Wendy Kier: I don't have children. I have a couple of cats, and I live with my partner, Steve. His cat is called Akira, and my cat is called Manga, so one of the most important things to me is to have a little cuddle with Manga on the sofa. That's when I really sort of ... Gosh, this is going to sound a bit strange. That's me relaxing, having a cuddle with my cat, and she's purring. I don't know. That really seems to ...
Jo Dodds: Especially for your health.
Wendy Kier: Yeah.
Jo Dodds: It's good, isn't it? Again, Fay mentioned it in her podcast this week about her cats, so you're not the only one. I have to tell you a little story about mine. We have two cats, and one of them has just randomly decided to start sleeping in my in tray. I'm not sure if that's because he's trying to get more attention, and he thinks that's the route to my attention, or what. I was recording a live radio show last week, and I'd forgotten he was in here. I'd had some technical issues dialling in, and I literally arrived on the show as the presenter, as the closing jingle, the opening jingle, rather, played. It was a bit stressful, and just as I started to speak, he decide to get up and come and join in, so he's sitting on my notes, and he has this tendency that when he wants you to cuddle him, he puts his arms around your neck, sort of thing, almost like he's really cuddling you back, and if you don't pick him up, and you're close enough, he'll try and sort of climb up your body to get into that position. I had this horrible feeling that he was going start trying to climb up, which, obviously, is quite painful. I had to stand up and move around the office, and move my notes all around the office, and basically run away from him whilst doing my radio show.
Wendy Kier: That's brilliant.
Jo Dodds: So on that occasion having a cat wasn't very relaxing at all, but I do buy into that. I think there's medical evidence that says that even just stroking cats is very calming. They talk about how good it is when children have animals for that sort of calming sort of thing. You don't sound like a mad cat woman at all. You just sound like ...
Wendy Kier: Well, I've only got two of them.
Jo Dodds: Exactly.
Wendy Kier: I'd have more if I could.
Jo Dodds: If you were saying you have 12 of them, and it took you all evening to cuddle all of them, then it might sound a bit more strange. Your cats, they help you to relax in the evening?
Wendy Kier: Yeah. Cats ... I'm very digital. It's really funny. I was reading through these questions before we came on, and I was thinking, "Oh my God. I don't have any social life whatsoever." PS4 is my other thing. I love PS4. I love solving problems, creating things, solving problems, so PS4 is just brilliant for that. I have a PS4, PlayStation 4, helps me relax.
Jo Dodds: What do you do with it? Not being a PlayStation fan at all ...
Wendy Kier: The game I'm playing at the moment is called Elder Scrolls. You fight people, you go into battle, you have tasks, you have challenges. It's very creative. It's almost like a constant learning environment.
Jo Dodds: Do you play that with other people elsewhere, or is it just yourself on the game?
Wendy Kier: No, it's just me. It's funny, Steve has a whole team and a whole network of people that he plays with on PS4, but I don't like playing with other people.
Jo Dodds: You’re a solo entrepreneur, why would you?!
Wendy Kier: I find it a bit confusing as to who's the leader. It's quite funny, though, if you can imagine: Steve's in one room, playing his game with his friends, and I'm in the other room, playing my game by myself.
Jo Dodds: Do you text each other to say, "Put the kettle on," and things like that?
Wendy Kier: Yes, we do.
Jo Dodds: We have been known to do that in this house. I do have to really force it sometimes in our house. We do have a tendency, if I have something where I really need to be in the office, I'll come in the office ... Sometimes I'll try and drag little Doddsy in with me and she sits on the easy chair in here so that we can spend some time together, even if I've got to do some work. Then my husband will be in his study, and we're a bit like ... "We must be in the dining room. Just bring your laptops if necessary," and on the odd occasion, we don't spend all our time working. We do do other family things, but we have had three laptops sat up on the dining room table. I just think, "Oh, dear, this is sad."
Wendy Kier: It's incredible, isn't it. I was at some illegal rave in Hackney a couple of weeks ago, and it was amazing how many people were just stood there with their mobile phones, phoning what was going on and not really taking part in what was going on. They were so fascinated with their phones and what was happening that ... Our connection with technology has just changed so much.
Jo Dodds: It has. It's interesting, I was saying with somebody the other day that one of the Dads up at the school, whenever he sees me, always makes some sarcastic comment about my phone and being on it all the time, and being on Facebook all the time, and all this sort of thing. It's quite interesting, because although I do spend a lot of time using technology, and my phone, I think is my most used business tool, because I can do so much with it and on it, and so on, I actually spend a lot of time not on technology, doing things. I'm particularly making that effort to be in the moment. When he says, "You're on Facebook all the time," I might look at it quite a lot, but I don't post very much at all, really, just for business stuff. It's interesting that he has this image of me because he thinks this is what technical people, digital consultants are like. It's actually not that true, because I think in some ways, I sort of make a real effort to not be on technology as much as I do to be on technology. I don't let it sort of overlap as much as everyone might imagine, sort of thing.
Wendy Kier: That's good.
Jo Dodds: Interesting.
Wendy Kier: It's healthy.
Jo Dodds: We talked a bit about Google Docs being a tool that you use. What about other tools or apps that you use that you recommend to people?
Wendy Kier: I've tried a couple of things. I try and keep everything as simple as possible, because we have to learn so much all the time. I guess I stick with things that I find really easy to use, and I don't have to learn something new. The other two I really like that make my life easier, the first is Camtasia, and that is a piece of software which I use for my training courses which allows you to record from your computer, slides or anything else that's happening online as well, so basically, you can just film what you're doing on your computer. That tool is brilliant.
Jo Dodds: I’ve used that in the past.
Wendy Kier: Yeah.
Jo Dodds: I'm trying to think ... it's Techsmith it comes from, isn't it?
Wendy Kier: Techsmith, that sounds [inaudible 00:25:34]. Yeah.
Jo Dodds: They also have Snagit, which I use for screen prints, and you can do little videos on that as well. That's one of my favourite tools. I think newsletters are quite good as well, about the sorts of things that you can do.
Wendy Kier: I've never seen one. I should imagine they are.
Jo Dodds: Cool. You said there's another tool?
Wendy Kier: Yes, well, this is for accounts. It's called Crunch. You know, historically, I had a bookkeeper, but Crunch is brilliant, because I can just upload all of my accounting, whether it's receipts, or different projects that I have going. I've found Crunch saves me a lot of time, and plus it just enables me to keep an eye on my ingoings and outgoings, so I know exactly where I am in the here and now. I love Crunch as well.
Jo Dodds: I've never heard of Crunch before. It's interesting. I was saying to you before, wasn't I, that we keep getting new tools and recommendations from people as the podcast goes alone. I keep expecting there to be lots of overlap, but here's yet another tool I've never heard of.
Wendy Kier: Yeah. I wish I'd had Crunch from the start of my business. I think I would have been much more clued up around the finances of business, because it's not my area of expertise. Crunch has really helped.
Jo Dodds: Excellent. Any others?
Wendy Kier: God, none that spring to mind. I just try and keep it really simple. Google Docs is what I use most of the time. Also, because you can get Microsoft online now, as well, in terms of ... I think one of the important things for me, and I think that's why Google Docs is so good and why Microsoft is now better, is that I like to be able to use things across different PCs, so no matter where I am in the globe, I can access my information and what it is I'm up to, and the training resource. I'm not stuck to the office.
Jo Dodds: Exactly. It's funny, I use Google Docs a bit, but I still do use the Microsoft Suite, although I have Office 365, so it's very available. I'm not very organized in my Google Docs, and I sometimes can't find things, because I sort of ad hoc set things up, it’s something that I probably do need to go and organise, because I do like to go and to find things quickly. I do find that it's the thing that's so easy and quick to get to. You're in your browser, you might as well just look at that document rather than having to go to your files and open your document, if it's Word or Excel or whatever. It's interesting that I'm using it just because it's easier, but I've never really thrown myself into it, when actually, it's so convenient, as you say.
Wendy Kier: One of the things I like about it is you can give someone the link, and then you can keep it as a working document. You just give them the link, and then you don't have to keep sending emails backwards and forwards with changes and amendments.
Jo Dodds: No, no. Exactly.
Wendy Kier: I think Microsoft is probably like that now, though, isn't it? You can invite different people into teams, and ...
Jo Dodds: Yes, yeah. Of course, if you use Dropbox, it sort of doesn't matter what you’re using anyway. Changing the subject, back to ... I'm sorry, say again? Dropbox?
Wendy Kier: Dropbox is a brilliant tool.
Jo Dodds: Yeah, something that I've realised just how much I use. I've been trying to organise my folders and files in the last couple of weeks, and I've just realised how much rubbish there is on there that I've saved over the last however long, but I can access it on all my devices, however much it's rubbish.
Wendy Kier: There is this thing, and I know Nicola Cairncross and Judith Morgan were talking about it the other week, about, we invest all this time and money in learning something. Its sometimes better just to stay with what we've invested all that time and money in learning, rather than just moving across to something new because it's a little bit cheaper.
Jo Dodds: Yes, definitely. That was when I think they were talking about Infusionsoft, and Nicola saying that she'd found another tool which I can't remember the name of. She said she really liked it, and if she was starting again, she might go with that, but she just couldn't go through the sort of transition. It's interesting, I keep listening to podcasts that talk about a to-do app called Nozbe, and I'm so tempted to try it out. I'm a lover of to-do lists. That's what I do to manage my tasks. I just know that, through my history, that I'd go to Nozbe and start setting it all up and I'd spend hours and days and weeks setting it up. My time would be better spent continuing to use to-do lists, and actually just getting the tasks done that are already on there, not creating a whole new one about moving to a new platform.
Wendy Kier: I agree.
Jo Dodds: So that [inaudible 00:30:48]. I've developed [inaudible 00:30:49]
Wendy Kier: [inaudible 00:30:49]
Jo Dodds: Years ago, I had a team member who said to me, if I was as efficient with my actually getting work done as I am with organising myself, I'd be brilliant. I took that to heart, and I worked very hard on actually doing important things rather than just organising myself ever since.
Wendy Kier: Brilliant.
Jo Dodds: Changing the subject, again, to thinking about being healthy, what sort of things do you do to keep yourself healthy? You said you have to make sure you eat, so that's good. What else?
Wendy Kier: It's not even a joke, I really do have to remind myself to eat. It's things like not eating processed food, so I cook things from scratch. I always have porridge in the morning, porridge with nuts or some sort of fruit. One of the things I did after Christmas, and it's in a box set somewhere in the front room, is I bought a little DVD set called "Slim in Six", which is an exercise workout. I have to consciously just remind myself to eat healthfully, and do the "Slim in Six" thing, when I remember to do it.
Jo Dodds: Here's where your issue is. It should be in 3 – you don’t do 6s!
Wendy Kier: It probably should. Yeah, maybe that's why I'm not doing it as much as I should be doing it. It's six. Out of alignment.
Jo Dodds: [inaudible 00:32:19] six [inaudible 00:32:20] that.
Wendy Kier: No, it's "Slim in Six Weeks", it's actually really good.
Jo Dodds: Six weeks, oh, okay.
Wendy Kier: Isn't it typical that it's a DVD on the TV? I'm not going to the gym or walking in the park, I've just got a DVD which I can put in my PS4.
Jo Dodds: I was going to say, it has to be on the PS4 as well. Yay, perfect. Lovely.
Wendy Kier: I try and eat well.
Jo Dodds: What about keeping your energy levels up, for all this work?
Wendy Kier: I haven't got an answer to that one. I just stick to trying to remind myself to eat. Eat fruit, I quite a bit of fruit now. Sleeping's important, and then exercise when I remember to do it.
Jo Dodds: Yeah, yeah. Okay.
Wendy Kier: I'm not going to say I have the healthiest lifestyle on the planet. I don't, but I think this is the reality for a lot of people who do digital stuff in front of their computer.
Jo Dodds: Yeah. Yeah.
Wendy Kier: [Thankfully 00:33:31] I'm not alone.
Jo Dodds: I don't think you are. That's some of the characteristic of wanting to do that sort of work, as well, I guess, is a certain type of person with a certain sort of lifestyle and so on, yeah. What about learning and improving yourself? I know you've gone through some sort of transitions in your business over the last couple of years. How do you learn? How do you make those changes?
Wendy Kier: I'm one of these people, I don't read, not very often. I've got quite a few books which I've never read, or I've started them and I've never finished them. I generally tend to learn by doing, which is a bit silly, really, because the books have got all the answers, people have done it before you, but, hey ho. I generally tend to do things and learn from the experience, so I'm very much a hands-on type of person. I do, although I'm not doing it as much as I used to do, if I want to learn about a particular subject, I'll buy a course online, or I'll watch videos online. I've stopped doing that now as well. I think my head's just a bit full of everything, so it's having a bit of breathing space. Then it will find another way to learn, but pretty much hands-on, pretty much learn by doing.
Jo Dodds: Maybe you just don't need to learn those other things at the moment, again, going back to conversations that I've had with people. I think Nicola and Judith, on their podcast, which is called "Own It," I've talked about, you end up sort of buying lots of stuff or watching lots of stuff or reading lots of stuff, sort of trying to learn all the time, and actually it just sort of distracts you from doing. It can be a bit of a procrastination tactic sometimes as well, can't it?
Wendy Kier: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I do sometimes think, "Oh, I should really read something. I should really read something." I don't know. It just doesn't happen.
Jo Dodds: Well, clearly, if you don't want to, then you shouldn't need to. Perhaps there is another route.
Wendy Kier: But you ... Yeah, anyway.
Jo Dodds: Nobody's obviously giving you a guilt trip about not reading. You don't need to.
Wendy Kier: Yeah. It's the thing of, you just have to nurture your personality, don't you, I guess? My thing is learn by doing. As much as I sit here thinking, "I should read more," I know I'm not going to do it.
Jo Dodds: No, no, exactly. It's like me. I've said before, I don't like making videos very much, even though I know that they're really helpful for YouTube and SEO and all that sort of thing. I actually don't watch them that often, either, because they just ... I just haven't got time to just give something my attention. Podcasts, I love, because you can listen to them while you're doing other things, but apart from maybe when I'm doing my accounts, I don't watch videos online because I just don't have the time, and I can't watch those things and think and write at the same time. There is a limited opportunity, even though there's tons of great stuff out there, all the tech talks, lots of other stuff that come out when people do launches and stuff. I have all these great ideas to watch them and put them into a folder to give me a change to catch up with things, and I never do. As you say, you have to work out what works for you, and your personality, and your lifestyle, and focus on that, and drop the guilt and everything else.
Wendy Kier: Yeah, yeah. I need to learn that lesson, drop the guilt.
Jo Dodds: What about if things don't go right? If you have a day that isn't quite the one that you were planning, you only do two of your three things maybe.
Wendy Kier: [inaudible 00:37:23], yes.
Jo Dodds: Like today when we had some technical issues!
Wendy Kier: This morning.
Jo Dodds: You seem to cope with that well. What do you do?
Wendy Kier: I think whatever it is, you've got to be honest in the moment of what's happening. You know, Jo, you were very patient. It took me forty minutes to get set up today, for lots of different reasons, which is very unusual. I think if you're honest with people, and you're honest with yourself with what's happening, and you can recover as quickly as possible. You put the next step in place and as quickly as possible, so you're not beating yourself up, or you're not stuck in the moment. Just move forward, just move past it. Honesty is big in my books.
Jo Dodds: Absolutely. I think it's about sort of relationships and communication. I sometimes have issues with people, like we had this morning. There's an issue with technical stuff, and I'm waiting for it to be resolved ...
Wendy Kier: Forty minutes.
Jo Dodds: The thing is, you know, I don't sit here for forty minutes tapping my fingers, thinking, "Where is she?" or any of those other things. I've got so much else to do, that I just get on with. I remember you said something like, "A minute just seems like the longest time." Of course, when I'm busy doing something else, it doesn't at all. It's just a normal amount of time. You always think, especially when you can't see the person, that they're sitting there waiting and it's awful, when in fact, people are quite happy to go along with whatever while things are being resolved. As long as they know that somebody's trying to deal with something, or what the situation is, and I think that's the case in lots of situations, real-life situations as well. If you communicate with people, and you're honest, and they know that you're trying your hardest or whatever, then that time goes a long way, doesn't it?
Wendy Kier: I think it really does go a long way. You can tell, can't you, when people are like porky pies.
Jo Dodds: Yeah. It does always make me laugh though, as I said before, when two technical people have technical issues. Our computers don't give us an easy time, do they?
Wendy Kier: No. It's so embarrassing. I remember doing a webinar about virtual summits, and I think point four was about getting your technology sorted and right, and as soon as I said that, the line went dead, and I was like, "You've got to be joking." I couldn't get anybody back, it was a disaster.
Jo Dodds: Computers, you see. They do know what we're doing, really. They say artificial intelligence isn't quite here yet, but I reckon it's been here for a long time. On a day when you end the day knowing that you've had the chance to live more, so, done things that you wanted to do rather than the things you felt you should do, or you have to do, what have you done? What does that day look like?
Wendy Kier: That's really interesting, isn't it? I'm not sure I've quite mastered it yet, but I would like to think that the people that I'm working with are ultimately satisfied at the end of the day, and that they know I'm there for them to succeed. It's little things like, I haven't had to work my butt off during the day, and I'm in flow, and as much present as I can possibly be, and that means not being so much in my head. I do very much get stuck in my head with thinking, and not necessarily seeing what's around me. It's about having that cuddle with my little Manga, and chilling out and relaxing. Simple things, really.
Jo Dodds: Yes, yeah. Lovely. I agree. Thank you. It's been brilliant interviewing you. Really, really enjoyed finding out about what you do and how you do it. How can people find out more about you and connect with you?
Wendy Kier: If they want to find more out about getting clients online, there's www.getclientsonline.co.uk, or if anybody wants to find out about virtual summits, my online training programmes are at www.virtualsummits.co.uk.
Jo Dodds: Brilliant. Thank you, Wendy. Great to have you on the show.
Wendy Kier: Oh, brilliant. Thank you, Jo. It's been an absolute pleasure.