Jo Permaul on Show #193: Build Resilience and Balance in Your Therapy Practice 

Jo Permaul retrained as a homeopath following a long relationship with the therapy in helping her with allergies and other ailments.

Initially, Jo worked as a teacher but wanted to use her love for natural and complementary medicine to help others. She has been treating people for seven years and also works as a Holistic Life Coach.

Following the challenges of moving her practice online due to COVID-19, Jo launched Resilient Therapist where she helps other therapists create a balance between treating patients and managing the business side of their practice, for which she won the Gold Award in The Janey Loves Awards.

Jo joins me today to share her journey from teaching to Homeopathy and the transferable skills she’s gained to help her launch her new business.

She shares how her business evolved from treating people to helping other therapists with their businesses and reveals the importance of finding the right balance between helping others in your practice and managing business tasks.

Jo shares the tools she uses to stay organised and how technology and the pandemic are helping normalise specific therapies.

She shares what she has noticed with her clients during the lockdown and how she maintains her resilience and wellbeing during these challenging times.

She also describes how the second lockdown’s seasonal changes are causing different challenges and what she does to stay up-to-date with the latest homeopathic practices.

“It’s about boundaries; it’s about you as a therapist having good boundaries and knowing what you can and can’t do.”

Jo Permaul

This week on The Power to Live More Podcast:

  • What inspired Jo to become a homeopath
  • The teaching skills that were transferable to Jo’s new career
  • How Jo’s business went from being a therapist to coaching other therapists
  • What the Resilient Therapist programme is and who it’s for
  • Why Jo chose “resilient” as a keyword in her business
  • Learning how to identify your boundaries, and balance helping others and saying no
  • Learning to connect the process of running a business and providing therapy
  • What is homeopathy and how it helps people
  • Holistic Life Coaching, what it is and what it can do
  • How Jo has handled the transition to online practice
  • How Jo fits her tasks together daily to make sure everything gets done
  • The weekly schedule Jo uses to provide a balance between work and family
  • Tools Jo uses to manage her business 
  • How many creative and healing types can find it challenging to integrate technology into their business
  • Why outsourcing certain parts of your business will free you to treat more people
  • What Jo has seen with her clients in regards to challenges and resilience during the pandemic 
  • How seasonal changes are affecting people during the lockdown
  • How Jo has maintained her resilience and health through the pandemic
  • What Jo does to keep up-to-date with everything in homeopathic therapy
  • How walking helps Jo deal with tough days
  • What living more means to Jo and some of her favourite things to do

Resources Mentioned:

Connect with Jo Permaul:

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Read Full Transcript

#193 Jo Permaul Interview

Today I'm interviewing Jo Permaul, homeopath and founder of resilient therapists. Welcome Joe, great to have you with me. Hi, Jo. Welcome. Thanks for having me. So you start by telling us a bit about who you are, what you do and crucially where you do it. And okay, so I'm a homeopath, and I work from Northeast London. I live in Chingford. And at the moment as we are in a pandemic, I'm actually working online, which is great, because it means I can cheat people anywhere. I've been a homeopath for the last seven years, I started retraining 10 years ago. And I found it the resilient therapists coaching program at the start of lockdown. Aha. And why did Chingford make me think about that comedy program? Well, it was that in Chingford, that. Thinking of birds of a feather. I was it birds of a feather? That's cheap? Well, well, there you go.


Not quite the same. So


a good life? I need to go look that up as well afterwards, find out where that and there we go. Excellent. So talk about how you ended up being a homeopath. Because as you say, it's it's been sort of more recently. And so presumably, that's not what you're doing when you first sort of got out into the business world? And how did that all come about? So I was a teacher, and was a teacher for 12 years, and I worked in secondary education. And I really loved being a teacher and of the kids. I loved the work. However, it's very challenging being a teacher, especially in London.

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And I became a homeopath. Because towards the end of my time in teaching, I burnt out. And homeopathy, homeopathy was what really helped me get through that period of feeling very stressed and overwhelmed. As a teacher, I'd had previous experience of being treated as by a homeopath in my teenage years. And so since I was about 1314, I was always interested in what it was. But it wasn't until I had this of quite dark period, as a teacher that I've really began to look into, what is homeopathy? And how does it work? And how can I use it, and it just grew from there. It was a real passion, then. Mm hmm. And so that's quite a sort of different thing to have been doing. And I guess it was partly sort of forced, forced on you with the sort of circumstance but what was the process? So, you know,


I think sometimes with the therapy stuff, you know, you learn how to do the therapy, the business thing is a whole, you know, different kettle of fish. How to make that happen? Well, it's interesting that you say, you see it as being quite different, because I actually don't see the two.


career choices is being very different. Both are working with people. And both are, you know, listening to people. And I think if you're a good teacher, you listen to your students, and you connect with them. And you find out what makes them tick. And then those skills become transferable. And you use them as a homeopath. So I don't see it as being a complete career change the business side, yes, that was completely out of my comfort zone. You know, beings have given a monthly paycheck as a teacher, to then having to be self employed, and deal with all of that, I found that really, really challenging. And that's partly why I've set up this coaching program called resilient therapist because I recognize that for all therapists,


and coaching and supporting therapists in their work, is what holds a lot of people back. Yeah, yeah. So tell us a bit more about the founding event. You said it was at the beginning of lockdown. Is that what prompted it? Or was it just a happy coincidence? It was a happy coincidence. as happy as it can be? I am. I started as a homeopath. And then, a couple of years ago, I decided I wanted to do a diploma in holistic life coaching because

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Transcribed by I really wanted to go deeper with my homeopathy patients. And then when it came to doing the case studies for my diploma course, I put it put it out there that I wanted to. And, you know, anyone was welcome to come along to be a case study. And everyone who came to me was actually a therapist of some sort. They were starting their business, they were, you know, in well into their business, but they needed guidance and support. So as I work through those hours of case studies, you know, the penny began to drop but actually, if all of these people are coming to me, and they need support, then there must be more output out there. You know, there are people out there who need this nurturing and hand holding and challenging


Literally first week of lockdown, I finished my diploma until Okay, I'm going to do something with this, you know, now is the time for me to get creative, and it just flew it flew from there. So tell us a bit about the resilient therapists program, what what does that look like? What does it do? Who do you work with? So I work with anyone, whether they started their journey, whether they literally just graduating as a therapist of any kind, or whether they have been doing it for a little while. And I've even got some people I've like I'm working with right now who have been therapists for maybe 20 years. So it, it doesn't matter what stage you are at your journey, it's a lot of it is confidence building. So helping people with putting themselves out there, maybe they're feeling anxious, or need more confidence in promoting themselves on social media, blogging,


you know, anything that puts them in the public eye, I'm finding that is something that people need real support with, or it could be things are looking at the systems and the business side of their, of their work. And that is really what's stopping them from doing what they want to do with their therapy. Because it can be extremely overwhelming if you're, you've got casework and great cases that you're working on with your clients, but then in the background, you've got this niggle about, I really need to do my accounts, I really need to do, you know, write lists for who to market to and that kind of thing. So it's about helping therapists set up systems as well, so that they can then get on with the work and, and, and heal other people, which is essentially what we all want to do is therapists and humans. So it's quite practical help. Yeah, practical, but also quite creative. I really like pushing people to be creative and finding that inner spark that of, you know, what their passion is about why they came into this therapy, you know, what was their goal when they started it? Because often, often, in any kind of business, we lose that reason why and we need to reconnect without reason why, yeah. And you've used the word

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Transcribed by resilient, and it's so one of the elements of power. Yes, organization, wellbeing, energy and resilience.


Which actually was quite a word coined by my daughter, who was probably only about 10 at the time, so I was very impressed that she came up with that for me. But why did you choose resilient as the the sort of main word in that I chose resilient because I realized myself that in the last 10 years in my journey, as a homeopath, I'd had to really dig into my own resilience, whether that be through working with particular clients, whether that be through personal issues that I'd gone through, and in terms of establishing a business growing a client base, life stuff that happened along the way, in, you know, in the last seven years, my daughter had had major surgery as well. And I knew that I needed to be able to contain that and contain those emotions. So I could still support other people on their healing journey. So resilience. I don't want to sort of sound overconfident here, but I do fit it's a bit of a superpower of mine in that I can heal other people and still look after myself. And if I can encourage other therapists to, to be resilient and to look after themselves, then they can go on to do some great work supporting other people. Hmm. And it's sometimes I was talking to somebody yesterday, he's actually a therapist, and we were talking about the whole sort of cobblers children thing that often you do end up helping other people and not helping yourself or certainly, to the detriment of yourself. Yeah. business situation when you feel like you have


no choice other than to do whatever you've committed to sort of Oh,


yeah, I think I think that's, you know, really fair point that, you know, when when we do we want to help people, and it can be a case of being completely at your own detriment, but it's about boundaries. It's about you, as a therapist, I think having good boundaries and knowing what you can and can't do, knowing your limitations. And being able to say no to things. Yeah, yeah. How do you do that as a therapist, because that,


you know, going back to what you're saying, you know, you're why a lot of therapists wise

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Transcribed by are about, obviously, helping people and helping people to sort of recover from things that often they've had themselves. And I'm just thinking about a friend of mine who, who was really helped with Reiki and is now you know, practicing that sort of thing. And how do you how do you balance on getting sorted out and also a cough die?


How do you how do you get the how'd you get that balance between the fact that you really desperately want to help everyone, which is probably, you know, at the heart of a lot of therapists sort of wise, with that saying, no thing


And creating those boundaries. It's something that I think has evolved. And now I can look back on having made many mistakes along the way with that.


I think having a clear structure in terms of what time of day, I would cut off talking to any patients, whether that be through a text that is one thing, but also know my own limitations and, and part of being a homeopath is that we will treat anyone for anything. It's sort of like being a general practitioner. But then knowing what my strengths are, as a homeopath. And for me, really nourishing what I've, what I do, and who I work with, has really helped me have those boundaries. So I really love working with people who suffer with anxiety. I like working with people who have skin issues, and I love working with families and children. So if there's an issue that isn't within my niched areas, I would pass on to a colleague, and just say that I know someone who can really support you with this, and they're going to do a fantastic job. So it's, again, it's working to my strengths and knowing my strengths. But of course, that only comes with confidence with age and with practice. Yeah, I love that that's a real sort of double whammy as well. It's that whole thing, as you say about creating almost like a process that that creates a boundary for you. Because, you know, you don't work with those people. But, you know, most of us know how important niching is, although many of us aren't very good at it, because it feels too restricting and worrying. But actually, you've you've done the both you've created that niche, and you've created an opportunity to have those boundaries, and quite easily be able to, you know, put them out there when when needed. Yeah, I think, you know, I'm always really open with my coaching clients and say that I'm going to teach you and we're going to work together, because I've made a hell of a lot of mistakes along the way. You know, when I started my journey, in fact, my mom reminded me of this yesterday, I

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Transcribed by would have tripped, right, sort of taken on anyone for anything, and not had those boundaries in place. So the reason I can talk confidently about it, and support therapists is because, you know, I hold my hands up and say, I did a lot of things wrong. Um, and, you know, I'm more of an experiential learner in that sense.


That that gives me that gives me the kind of the content to be able to work effectively with with clients now. Yeah. So for those people who don't know, what is a homeopath? So a homeopath is


a homeopathy is a natural form of medicine, it was established in the 1700s. And it works on the principle of like cures like,


it's a medicine that is very bespoke, and individualized, there are something like over 3000 types of homeopathic medicine and remedies. And what we do in a session is we will talk through your issue and your complaint, and how that is affecting you now. But we will also look at your history of the illness. And we'll take every aspect of your health and well being into account. So it's like being part detective, sort of part history, historical of your case, and and then working out what remedies we'll see you. And the beautiful thing about it is that every one is different. So say, for example, you were talking to me about a headache, I'm not going to give you the same headache remedy that I'm going to give somebody else because your headache is very different. And it's very much a personal thing for you. So a homeopath goes into a lot of detail, and joins the dots and connects everything together. Mm hmm. And you said that you trained as a holistic therapist as well. What does that map? What is it holistic life coach? So holistic life coaching is looking again, at the whole person? Yes, um, and coaching them again, on aspects to do with mind, body and spirit, not just one specific area. So it's bringing in to the conversation, everything about them, and understanding that how you are physically and how you are emotionally, spiritually, and mentally. It's all part of the equation. Mm hmm. And then you also mentioned that you now work online because of the lockdown. How is that transition for you? Sounds like you weren't working online for and then all of a sudden, what? How did you facilitate that? Well, zoom is wonderful, isn't it for for client work.

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And actually, I'm finding clients really like it. They like to be able to sit and have a chat in the comfort of their own home and have a cup of tea and, you know, the length of the session is exactly the same and I'll post remedies out and they'll get them within 48 hours. So it works. However, I'm a really people person, and I love seeing people and I especially love working with children. So I do


Mr. Outside of my work at the moment. So there's a there's a balance here, you know, it's, it's not ideal for everyone, but it's better for some people.


And I guess better than not being able to work. Yeah, of course. I mean, I, there are so many therapists out there at the moment who cannot work,


you know, because of pee pee and not being able to touch and you know, it's very, very difficult for them. So I am lucky, and I do count my blessings. And that's part of the reason why I wanted to support therapists during lockdown.


Because I really saw it as being a unique opportunity for a lot of people to develop and grow their business while they weren't able to work. Yes, yeah. So just thinking about sort of what your days look like bearing in mind that on top of running your own business and seeing people and presumably, continuing with your learning, which I guess is probably


what your business was, you've added this, this other business, which is about supporting people in their businesses. So it's quite different what you were doing, how have you, especially given you then went to, you know, online, working all at the same time? How have you sort of fitted it all together? And how do you make sure you get done what you need to get done? Well, I'm, I'm a realist person, I've got lists everywhere, post it notes

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Transcribed by everywhere. And to me, that is my, my way of managing. I like taking things off, I get real satisfaction from that.


But I can't really function and do my day's work, unless I've had some time in the morning to clear my head. And because I have a dog, I find that the hour that I would walk the dog every day, and I tend to go to Epping Forest to do that is for me a time to sort of just think about what I want to achieve today. Um, get all that kind of mind chatter out of my head that would hold me back. And then when I come back, and I start work, I can get on with what I need to do. Mm hmm. So So you've done your walk, you've got your lists, yes.


What does that do you have? Do you sort of I mean, one of the things I do with my coaching, and my podcast is I corral it all into three days. So Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, a full on, but then I've got sort of big chunks of time in the rest of the week to do you know, whatever else I need to do. Is that similar to what you do, or Well, I guess, uh, no. So I try to work, I have two evenings a week where I'm available to homeopathic clients. So usually a Monday up to about seven, I'll work. And Wednesday was my clinic day. So I used to work from one to eight. So I'm still available online on a Wednesday in the evening.


And I also


try to do most of my work in the school day. So normally start my day at work about 915 930. And I try to have most of it finished on the other days by three o'clock. So that I can actually spend some time with my kids and ask them how their day was.


But also, I find that my creative time tends to be about five o'clock in the evening, which doesn't quite fit with that. So

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Transcribed by 18:30

I'll often disappear upstairs between about five and six to just kind of get ideas down


in the day as well. And my children are teenagers, so they don't need me hanging around as much as a small child word. Just knowing that I'm around I think is good for them. Yes, yes. Yeah. Essentially, is that does that make you a nightbird? Is that why you're like I don't work in evenings really. I'm I like to read watch TV in the evenings. I'm a morning person. I like to get up regular time every morning and have my breakfast early. Try and get out to the door by eight o'clock in the morning. And if I'm going to do any cleaning it's got to happen first thing in the morning as well. I'm I love mornings. Yes, that's interesting that you've got your sort of five o'clock creativity sort of thing but also great that you know that and you can cover I think I just created that time because it means that I can try and get out of cooking the dinner.


I must put that one out. I never used to really cook dinner until lockdown and then I suddenly found myself cooking for England that seemed to be my way of I'm obviously a feeder have decided that's my way of doing the family. I mean, I like cooking, but I have to say I prefer the washing up part at the end. So yeah, if my if my husband and kids want to cook that's fine by me. Yeah. So you talked about being a list person is that pen and paper? Yes. And it's pen and paper but I do integrate. I have like a Google calendar with a notes function. So when I'm out and about I will add notes in


So But yeah, I love pen and paper. And I think, you know, that's the disadvantage of technology is now that a lot of people are stepping away from using notebooks and pens. Yes. Will you say that although I could probably count on one hand, the number of people who come on this podcast and tell me that they use anything other than pen and paper.


Either I attract pen and paper fans or, or it's it's a myth that the tech companies are putting out there.

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So I guess, you know, it's partly a


balance, isn't it? Between? Yeah, there's something really nice about writing. And just that kind of process of, you know, going through your head and through your hand and onto paper. It enables me to be more creative. Yeah. Yeah. So what about other tools and apps that you do? Use? You talked about Google Calendar? Yes. And so as a homeopath and a coach, I have a booking system online, which I set up about four years ago on the advice of another homeopath. And that really changed the way I work. It enabled me to integrate, you know, people booking in for appointments. But it also took out all the admin for me, which has been a massive time saver.


And it just makes my life a lot easier. And it all all links into my Google as well. So that's a really good system, I'd recommend for therapists.


I use one called get timely, but there are free ones. I think calendly is a good one.


That there's there's lots out there. Um, but I my one integrates my accounting system, my newsletter system, my diary. So if somebody books into see me,


I will get an email notification straightaway that they've booked in, tells me whether they've paid me or not. So I then know whether I need to chase them up for the money. And I can also send them invoices as well. So it's a really effective system. And again, as a new therapist, I didn't know that those things even existed. I was doing everything pen and paper in a diary. And it was taking me hours and hours a week, especially if somebody cancelled an appointment. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's interesting, isn't it? Because? Well, again, it goes back to that sort of one of my original questions, which is, you know, how you sort

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Transcribed by of marry the providing therapy with running a business? And that when you don't know, some of that stuff, it gets in the way, doesn't that? Yeah, well, then I have a coach and she said, Oh, he says, You don't know what you don't know. And sometimes when you don't know, things you can be so


well, you can just feel very shortchanged that your life is going one way and you wanted to go in other way currently, so


yeah, I mean, the technology is great, as a therapist, and I think the more we integrate it into our practice, and the more streamlined we become, the more effective we become. Hmm, do you find that that's sometimes a hard sell? As in?


I worked with quite a few people where they're setting up in business, and they,


you know, they want to learn how to do it, you know, more easily and all that sort of thing. But, but actually, they do. Sometimes, I almost feel sometimes they block their ability to learn what I'm trying to teach them because they just assume it's too complicated or? Absolutely, yeah, absolutely. So, I mean, I'm working with a few therapists right now. And there's a massive resistance to putting things online. That is technology and this feeling of being out of their comfort zone. But another part of it is, as I said, At the start, it's all about confidence. And when you put yourself out there, then you have to deliver what you say you're going to deliver. Where's the time you're on pen and paper, and people are referred to you sort of going around the back houses? It's a less out there sort of visible experience.


Yes, yeah. Yeah, resistance is definitely something I can see. And I sort of experience in the same way I was on some stays. And accounting, I was talking about email marketing, and there was a sort of process and we were sort of sorting it out. And I could see that he wasn't quite following along and I was trying to say to him, you know, you could do a pivot

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Transcribed by table in Excel, which I have no idea how to do that.




But you know, you could work out the process and you could work out the


the dependencies and everything else to make that process happen. And you know, the email marketing is no different. It's just a different tool. But there's still dependencies and process and you know, that sort of thing triggers of things and that sort of thing, but it Yeah, I think for a lot of people that sort of stuff is is quite dull, and it's very techie and if you are creative


Healing type. It's really not your forte. Yeah. And I think there's this big guilt thing about should you take on somebody else to do that work for you.


And, you know, just reaching out and getting somebody else to do part of your business can really free you up and it can be very liberating experience. Yeah.


And that's one thing I would encourage therapists to do is if you don't get it, then pay somebody else who does. because your life is gonna become so much easier. Yes, yeah. What sort of things? Do people outsource in your industry? Or would you suggest they outsource? So, website building for one? and integrating systems like the like, I've talked about that booking systems newsletter systems on integrating something like mailer light, or maybe MailChimp, and

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Transcribed by 25:56

just sort of design and branding work? Yeah. Accounting.


Yes. Those things with everything. for treating people. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I mean, I think and that's, that's what we need to be doing more of, we need to be doing more of the treating people, especially now, with the well being the way it is. Yeah. And, you know, recognizing that other people have other talents, which part of my rezin interest exempt therapist program, is I've got a couple of ladies I'm working with, you know, all of that stuff. And they're passionate about


social media work, and they're passionate about creating websites. So if I can link up with other people that can support my therapists, then that's, that's a great marriage, because everyone is happy, then. Yeah, yeah. And so this podcast will be going out at the end of January. So who knows where we'll be in terms of the pandemic.


We're recording it just as we're about to go into proper lockdown. Again, what have you seen in terms of sort of resilience and


challenges and people's mindsets through the time because you've obviously, you know, worked with people from your sort of coaching perspective, but also through the resilient therapist program, as well, as I guess, you know, that's sort of what you call your usual clients that you work?


Well, if I think about my homeopathy clients, first, a big change, I think going through a whole range of emotion, grief has been a big emotion,

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anxiety and depression, and I niche my work working with a lot of people with anxiety. Anyway, so I've noticed a real change in terms of how anxiety presents itself, and how people are more open now, to admitting they're anxious, and they're more open to asking for help for it.


That's been great. I think that people have also really valued that health is their greatest asset. And it doesn't matter how rich you are, and what car you drive. If you're unhealthy, then, you know, that's, it's a great leveler isn't it. So that to me has been such a positive thing that has come out of this that people are saying, as you need to begin for a session, my practice has been very busy. Because of that, which has been good.


But very, very encouraged by that. I think what I've noticed for this second lockdown, so we literally say going to go into a second lock down, a big shift in terms of cases and mood has been the change from


that the seasonal changes. So as the light has become less,


that has really bought out people shadow sides, and it's bought out a lot of things that they really want to explore and get rid of. which again, is encouraging.


But it's hard work for them. You know, in it. It requires guts to say Actually, I'm struggling right now. I need some help and support. I don't want to carry on like this. So, you know, that's been a really big challenge for me as a practitioner. Yeah. But a really enjoyable one because I love working with people and getting them through those stages. Mm hmm. So it's been it's been a ride. It's been a really, you know, crazy ride. I think they call it the corona coaster, don't they? So I heard that one.

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It's been very intense, but hugely rewarding. Yeah. And then I think with therapists we've also been on such a journey, you know, could we work, couldn't we work if you can work you've got to do NPP.


And then, you know, lots of people working online, some people not able to work online. Other people taking on other income streams.


So they can come work. So it's been a really challenging time. It's particularly interesting, because as an industry and we are well being industry, that we have been told that we're not an essential service. Yeah. And I find that just really aggravating.


And, you know, it's something that I've been campaigning about and trying to raise awareness of.


So yeah, it's not, it's not been easy. And I think that's where the resilience comes, you know, we are therapists and healers for a reason. And most people who have been on this journey, who have changed to become a therapist, or healer, have done it because they've gone through a process of healing themselves. And they're so passionate about what they do that,


you know, they want to kind of wax lyrical about it and and sort of talk about the value of what they do, and then we've been shut down.


So it's been a great time to really work on,

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you know, the systems and putting themselves out there so that when we can go back, we're going to do it in such a big way. Yes, yeah. And so have you personally, how have you sort of ensured your resiliency through this? And how do you make sure that you keep healthy and you're, you know, relaxed and all that sort of stuff? Um, well, I have a lot of friends who are homeopaths. So that's great, you know, we're always talking about remedies and what to take. So, you know, brilliant for that. I also have monthly acupuncture sessions,


which I couldn't have over the first few months of spring this year. But I'm back into that now.


And that really helps me take over Well, um, I've had some online sessions with various therapist, colleagues, I had an online craniosacral session, yesterday had an online Reiki healing session. And I also like their walk every day. And for me, walking really allows me to connect with nature and ground myself and really feel part of something bigger than my work. Yeah. Which I think is hugely important. Yeah. And what about learning and improving yourself? You've just fairly recently finished studying you said, Yeah, you keep up to speed up to date with things? Well, as a homeopath, we have to attend and continued professional development days. So


I was booked in to go on a seminar about teenage health, that I couldn't go because of lockdown. So I'm hoping that will come back up. As soon as everything gets back to normal. And I like to learn things online. And there's great portals online for homeopaths to sort of log into and watch recordings by eminent homeopaths who have lots of knowledge to share.


Yeah, I mean, I read I read a lot. And I, I talk to a lot of people about what we do and share ideas. That's the great thing about coaching therapists is that I have great conversations with people. I

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think it's interesting what you're saying about, you know, things being online. I think that's been one of the advantages of the pandemic as well, that so many more people who wouldn't have been online or put their stuff online, have either had to or have chosen to even down to things like, you know, at the beginning of lockdown, we watched a load of the empty live performances and national hits alive.


Which, you know, we, we might have seen one of the maybe by going to the cinema and watching it there, you know, had it Yeah, well, sort of thing, but actually, because they were on and they weren't every week, and they were changing. Well, you know, we were avidly. Yeah, I watched one. It's I think I watched one with James Corden yesterday. Yeah, that was good. That was very good.


Um, but, you know, just, you know, that's a sort of a small example. But, you know, some of the, you know, teachers, people who have things to offer have just, you know, gone online, put stuff online to be generous during the situation. So, there's a lot of stuff that's now available that perhaps wouldn't have been. I mean, and also we've got YouTube and yeah, other platforms that we can tap into as well. And it's, it has opened up so much stuff. It's not that has been great. That's been one really good thing that's come out of lockdown. Yes. Yeah. So last couple of questions. What about those days when you have awful days where things go horribly wrong? How do you know you'll have them Don't worry.


I am really good at reaching out to people and if I feel a bit low, so I have good groups of friends that I can reach out to, but I also really love walking and if I've had a really bad day or a heavy day, then I will put my earphones in, go for a walk. Listen some really loud music


listen to the podcast and just walk and walk until I feel like Okay, I'm ready to get back

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Transcribed by home and get we've got my head around stuff. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. You were recommended for the podcast by Heather wearing, weren't you? So Thompson walks with Heather. She's great. And you know, we have a similar mindset about walking and the power of it. Yeah.


And what about those days where you get to live more, and that's where you get to do more of the things that you want to do and less of the stuff that you don't want to do? What are those days look like for you? Well, I think for me, the days where I get to live more those where I spend time with my family, and I spend time with my children, my husband will go out.


We really love food. And we really like exploring food from other cultures. The food plays a big part in our family time. And I really love to read and read a lot.


And I really like to have good conversations with people.


And being part of networks and groups of people who share the same interests as me is really important. So I really like talking about astrology and I read the Tarot and I love talking to people about that. And travel as well. I love to travel. Hmm, lovely. So thank you, Joe. It's been great interviewing you today. tell people how they can find out more about you and get in touch. Thank you, Joe. So I have two Instagram accounts. One is at Joe dot homeopath. And the other one is at resilient therapists and the links to everything I do are on both of those accounts in my bio, lovely and they'll be in the show notes as well. Thanks for joining me today. It's been really good, fun talking to you.

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